Episode 29-Breaking Free From Burnout With Stephen Spence

Welcome to the War on Dad Bods podcast. I'm here with Steven Spence today. I'm really excited about this podcast. I hope you guys are going for a walk while you're listening to it. Today, Steven has done something I've never seen anybody do before.

00:17
So there's this workhorse corporate mentality where when people work for these corporations, I've noticed from the outside in that they tend to work a lot of long hours and those that make the most sacrifice sometimes get promoted and that's the culture.

00:32
Well, Steven has managed to work 42 hours a week as a senior executive in corporate management for Fortune 500, for multiple Fortune 500 companies. So today we're gonna dig in to how he does it. And he's like the corporate coach guys.

00:50
Definitely check this out. Steven, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here. Thanks Matt. Good to be here. One quick correction, senior manager, not senior executive. Okay, senior manager. See, I don't know the corporate world at all.

01:02
Yeah, all good. Let's kind of start off with like your bio, your quick story, like what got you into this career and tell us through your recent history and the challenges you've overcome. Yeah, absolutely.

01:18
So getting into coaching, my real trigger for doing that was in 2016, I went through some very severe burnout. I was working on uncounted a number of hours. I wasn't paying attention to my health and there was just a lot of negativity in my life and I wasn't doing anything about it.

01:39
I was just rolling with the punches, expecting everything that that was normal. That was the way things were expected. And I had three events that were really my wake up calls to change the way I live.

01:51
And then also that drove me to do what I do today. The first one is I was having a lot of panic attacks and anxiety I couldn't figure out what was going on. So I'm like, okay, go to the doctor, you know, go to the doctor, this thing to do.

02:04
My wife took me to the doctor, went to the doctor after talking to him, they're like, yep, we need to put you on these five different medications. I'm like, no, not doing that. So, all right, thing one is like getting on meds that have massive number of side effects.

02:19
I mean, SSRIs, all this stuff's like, no, not gonna go do this. You know, there's gotta be a better way to do this. Now, did I do a better way? No, I just said, no, I'm not gonna do it. Number two was I was working with one of our large clients just sitting in a war room.

02:35
We were really focused on a problem and a large project that was going on. Everybody's stressed, everybody's working a lot of hours. It's just go, go, go, go, go. And one of the colleagues that was sitting next to me just sat there and goes, my head hurts.

02:48
I'm like, okay, yeah, you know, all our heads hurt. It's stressful, we got a lot going on. So I'm gonna call my wife. calls his wife his wife was actually an ER nurse and she recognized the signs immediately took him to the hospital he actually had like a brain aneurysm or something similar like that while he was sitting in the office luckily they caught it early enough he's fine now but it was like wow that's a lot of pressure for somebody while they're working just to be like the third thing that really drove me is i was driving to the office one morning and as i was going there i don't know if you've ever heard this and someone actually told me the name and i forgot what it was called but when you hear hospital patients where they can see and hear everything around them but they can't do anything they can't move or anything like that i had that at a luckily i was stopped at a stoplight i had that it was such a severe panic attack i couldn't move couldn't do anything i could see and hear everything going on around me and you know it might have lasted for like a second but for me it felt like forever and i was they felt paralyzed and that was like the third straw that wrote the camel's back so to speak that really said i've got to change things so you know i talked to my wife really started making changes in my own personal life as well as corporate i the biggest thing for me is that i started saying to my managers the people i work with i said i've got two phones one is a personal phone one is a work phone at five o 'clock at the end of the day this phone goes into a bucket and i don't touch it till the next day at eight a .m that was a boundary that i needed to set and i said there are three people who have this personal phone number and if it's absolutely necessary they can call me and get a hold of me over here now it was interesting i had a lot of people say that's a fabulous idea why didn't i think of it because a lot of people are thinking how do they set boundaries because nobody really taught us as kids i mean yeah playing in the sandbox that's my toy that's your toy things like that but as we grow up and become adults nobody tells us what is a healthy boundary so everybody just keeps asking for more and more and more and if you're a type a personality or anybody who likes to help others it's easy to follow into this trap of oh well it's just one more thing I'll do one more thing I'll do one more thing and suddenly you go oh man I've got thousands of things that people have asked me to do that I didn't say no towards I did that go ahead yeah see a lot yeah so I did that I started like working more healthy hours like when I'm done I'm done obviously if there's an escalation that's ongoing I take care of the business it needs to be taken care of I'm not out what were the priority things and what did I actually need to do versus delegation and giving other things to people do I wasn't trying to hold it on anymore the other part is I signed up for a half iron man dropped like 45 pounds or so I got to the lowest weight I've ever been in that I can remember while I was training now it was a lot of training and I don't know if I'd do it again at least not for a while but I was training like constantly and I dropped a bunch of weight but I really accomplished it.

05:51
I finished a half Ironman, I did everything, never done one before. And I just did a half Ironman in Arizona in 2017. So then I started really through that process started realizing the types of foods I was eating and how to take better care of myself physically and mentally, but all of that was triggered off of that extreme stress and those things that really brought me to that point.

06:14
Now fast forward a couple of years, I stepped back into management because at the time I was just a leader, but not a manager. And I said, I'm going to treat my employees the way I thought somebody I wish would have told me.

06:27
Now, nobody asked me to do all the extra work. I did that all on my own, but nobody also told me, like, you don't have to. That was the thing that I was missing. So now with my team of about 40 that I managed on top of my coaching business, I say, Hey, you need to take care of your kids and you take care of your family.

06:43
Always focus on what's number one, because everything else will fall into place. And that's how I work with my team and I make sure their wellbeing is the top of mine at all times. So how has, well, two things here that I think are really interesting.

07:01
Number one is you got to a point, you made the changes, the logistics of the changes we're definitely going to talk about and how to make them and all of that. But when you made the changes and now you're working so many less hours and now you have this space.

07:16
I just want to highlight that with that space, you know, you could do a lot of different things. You went into Ironman, you went into cleaning up your diet, you went into all of that. And that's what you were craving to do with that space.

07:28
And people could do a variety of things when they create that space, they could spend more time with their family. They could, you know, take on any habit or whatever it is. That's really awesome. The second thing is, so once you begin to manage your team in this new, different approach that is holistic and I think fair in response.

07:51
and very logical and holistic. How did that affect their productivity and their performance? Great question. A lot of them, they, many of them are already super high performers. So if anything, it was a little bit of a shock to them because they had expected, well, everybody's going to make sure I work all the time.

08:09
It's like, no, not necessarily. That's not going to be the case. If you want to work more, absolutely, I won't stop you, but consider what it means to you, to your family, to your relationships, to the things that are matter and are important to you.

08:22
But honestly, I see a lot of my people performing very well. They're asking for higher levels of responsibilities and they can focus on the things they want to go do. I'm like, Hey, if you, you know, if you finish your work in a decent amount of time, you got some extra, go teach yourself something, go learn something, go take care of yourself, walk around the block, do something like that.

08:40
You know, those types of things that took me a while to learn because. I didn't have a coach. I didn't know what to do. I just kind of figured a lot of it out on my own. So now I'm like, great. I'm going to tell people that it's okay to do these things.

08:55
You need to go take up your pick up your kid at four. Sure. Go ahead. Do it. I don't care. You've worked the time you needed to do as long as you get in and complete the work you need to do great. If you want to take on more, sure.

09:06
You want to rise in the ranks. That's perfectly fine. But a lot of it, I see people performing at a very high level when they are not too stressed and they are able to really think clearly about what they're doing.

09:20
I think that's what I would expect. I've not witnessed it the way you have, but that's what I would expect is when the nervous system isn't so overwhelmed and so burnt up and so fried that you would make much better decisions or probably just make less bad decisions, which, you know, can cause us lots of time, money and damage relationships.

09:40
If there's, you know, anger, stress involved. And so how many hours a week are you currently working? I try and stick to right around 42. I try. Obviously there are exceptions to that. Like anything where it's like, Hey, this really needs to get done.

09:57
But then I choose, this is the biggest thing is that I choose that. Okay. I'm going to do that. I choose that I'm going to give up my lunch break for this, or I choose that I'm going to work extra hours.

10:09
It wasn't a default mode anymore. It was that I'm making a conscious choice that I am replacing this with this because it's something I want, not what I thought people expected of me. And that was the biggest difference for me is that I had all these stories in my head is like, Oh, people expect me to do this.

10:25
They expect me to be here. They expect me to do this. They expect me to be there. It was all in my head. And as soon as I got out of my own head and figured out, well, no, if they expect something, I mean, they're going to tell me, and then I have a clear reality of what things are instead of all the stories I was telling in my own head, which drove me to that point.

10:44
So some of us have assumed that. expectations, we're assuming people are expecting things from us, that they may or may not be expecting if they haven't been clearly communicated beforehand. That's interesting.

10:59
So part of getting there, the process of getting there, I mean, we got people listening, they're like, yeah, but I can't do that because I got this, because I got that. What are some of the tools, some of the tactics, some of the shifting beliefs?

11:13
That's... Yeah, the biggest thing is you are the only one who can set boundaries. No one's going to do it for you. You have to go do it, and you have to do it based on what's valuable to you. I know some people use the Eisenhower matrix.

11:27
I don't know if you're familiar with that. What's important, time bound, all that stuff. I've started changing that into a value -based matrix, where I say, what is valuable to me, and then how much time does it take?

11:38
The things that are not valuable to me, but as a lower priority. Now, yeah. I've got to take out the garbage. I've got to clean the house. I've got to do the yard. Those are like the things that have to get done that I might not find a lot of value in.

11:50
But the things that you can choose to do, that's where your value comes in. So I use that a lot to determine, okay, is this valuable to me, the future I want, and the goals that I'm trying to pursue?

12:00
If not, do I absolutely have to do it? And that's the hard part, I think people have to get over in their own mind is like, do I absolutely have to do it? Or can somebody else do it? Or does it even really need to be done in the first place?

12:14
We get so stuck in our ways of like, oh, well, I've always done this. Like, have you ever asked why? So that's the value thing I use to trying to determine what is the value to me, not as what is the value to somebody else, and then prioritize what I do based on that.

12:27
Now I want to support my family, so I do my work because that's valuable, things like that. But also like my health is valuable, so I exercise and I meditate and I listen to motivational things because I prioritize those.

12:40
And when I prioritize them, I make time for them because I'm the only person who can choose what I spend my time on. There you go. I think one of the biggest challenges people have is just saying no.

12:54
What was that like for you starting to say no to things, just the way you approach the conversation, where you frame it in your head? It was so scary. I'll say the initial time when I was starting to be like, okay, I'm going to start doing this.

13:09
It was so scary, but I considered the alternative. I reminded myself of those things of my life, of like somebody having an aneurysm, having to take medications that I know I may never have to get off of, and being stuck in a situation that I had no way out of.

13:27
And I kept reminding myself as a witch is scarier, that or the possibility of someone having a negative reaction. So that's one. The other part is remembering that after words come out of my house and after behaviors have taken place, I have no control.

13:42
over what somebody else does with that. So control the controllables. I control over how I behave, what I say, but after that, I have no more control. Yeah, and in a previous conversation you mentioned, no is a complete sentence.

14:00
Absolutely, no is a complete sentence. You don't have to give an explanation, and that's something I still struggle with today, but I've learned more on it that you have the choice to give an explanation or not.

14:12
Like if you feel somebody warrants an explanation, that's your choice, but no is also an answer. It's like, can you work late? Do you want to? Is it part of your job responsibility? That's the other key, because there are job responsibilities.

14:24
There are jobs where you're on call. It's part of what you signed as a responsibility. Yeah, you have to do some of those things, but other than that, it's like you make the choice if you want to do that or not, because no is a complete answer.

14:35
Nope, not gonna be able to do that today. If they ask for more, it is your choice as to whether you give them more details or not, depends on the relationships, things like that. But ultimately it is your choice as to how much detail and no is a complete answer.

14:50
Um, how about, how about this one? Okay. So we've, we've, we've gotten as far as to start saying, no, we've gotten as far as to establish our boundaries at some point, inevitably people will test our boundaries and cross our lines.

15:10
Um, what happens then? Honest conversations. That is the most important thing. Be transparent, have an honest conversation with the person who's doing it. It might've been a mistake. It might've been something they've forgotten.

15:23
Give the people the benefit of the doubt and go out of the conversation with them. Like, Hey. Say, for example, it's like, Hey, I see you scheduled a meeting at, at 5 p .m. I typically get off at this.

15:34
I accepted it because of X, Y, Z reason. Again, going back to the choices, choices of that aspect, but normally I do this. So you reestablish those boundaries and make sure that they're understood if they're, and if it crosses again, then you say, Hey, going forward, I won't be accepting your meetings.

15:51
I won't be responding to you unless absolutely necessary. That's where you have to go to protect yourself and possibly if it's in a corporate setting, you might need to go to their leadership and be like, Hey, I've tried to have the conversation.

16:03
First, the person doesn't seem to be picking this up. I'm looking for your support to help in this area. And there are unfortunate situations because of the way some corporations work that even their leaders should be like, well, you should just do it anyway.

16:17
Then you have the own person, your own personal choice to determine, is that an invert environment you want to stay in? And are you going to thrive there? And that's probably a hard thing for a lot of people because changes people think change is scary and they think I can't get anything else.

16:34
You know, maybe that is the opportunity or the trigger to start improving skills to working on the different things. if you truly consider your own wellbeing. Yeah, and what I've gathered in, I haven't lived in that environment, but in my personal life and in some of my business life, I find there's standing between me and sort of the life I want or a change I want is often a very important one conversation,

17:04
you know? And there's different times that this happens, but that one conversation, you know, just having it appropriately, accurately, clearly, it can change so much. But a lot of us, you know, there's a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear about entering those conversations.

17:21
But I mean, after you've had those conversations, how have they gone based on how you expected them to go? My initial expectation was like, oh man, they're gonna get mad at me, they're gonna go off on me.

17:34
And what I tried to think about is like, What would I do if someone came to me with this? How would I respond? I'm probably not going to get mad at them. I'm probably not going to yell at them. I'm probably going to try and understand better.

17:46
So then I start reframing it like how would I respond to me if I was going there? OK, I'm going to adjust my expectations. Now, the interesting thing is some of these boundary expectations, people were very receptive, like, oh, that makes sense.

18:00
I wonder why I didn't think about it. So it was even a more surprising response than I had expected. And sometimes it is just that honest and transparent conversation around setting boundaries to begin with and recommunicating those boundaries because as time pass, people get busy, they forget.

18:16
And it's just like, hey, gentle reminder, I don't you know, I've got things in the afternoon I take care of. I start my day at this, all those different things and making sure that you just remind people of your boundaries.

18:26
Some people forget it. We're human. It happens and just giving grace where grace is due. Yeah, it's just having the one conversation and then the follow ups and checking in. But that one shift, that one change can open up so much time, so much freedom, so much mental stress, just believe that.

18:44
And it's just about having that conversation. So if you're listening right now, I want to challenge you. I don't want you to think about something. If you were to have a conversation, who would it be with?

18:56
And what's the first conversation you have? What would it be about? Well, Stephen, let's ask you, like, I don't know, big picture. Can you think of like where people should start with which conversation with who?

19:06
I mean, anything coming to mind there? You need to have a conversation with yourself first. It kind of sounds very like, you know, coachy type of thing. But honestly, until you determine what are your own boundaries and what are your values and what do you think is important?

19:24
Any boundary you go and set with another person can become hollow very quickly unless you really have determined within yourself. What is an important way? Why is this boundary important to me? And what would I do?

19:38
willing to do to reinforce that boundary. That makes your stance on that a lot easier to go have that conversation with your manager, with the co -worker who always comes by your desk and won't stop talking with possibly your spouse or even your your old kids or your younger kids.

19:54
Now the younger kids might not understand but it's a good opportunity to show them as well what is a healthy boundary. Now do we just walk up to people and start having this conversation or do we maybe said you know at this time can we discuss x, y, z?

20:13
Any terminology or phraseology that you like along that? I want to toss this in. When asking for like a raise I was talking to somebody earlier like one question that I really like because I have a mentor here that was a corporate guy he says if you ask him for a raise just ask him like so what's our process for getting promoted?

20:37
And you know, what metrics are we using? That's just the that I like. Like, what is our process for getting, instead of just asking for a raise, you know? Mm -hmm. Yeah, so entering in some of these conversations, you can start off with, hey, I just want to hop on a call real quick and make sure we're on the same page regarding how we're, you know, how we're working together.

20:54
Then you go and show that not only are you just wanting to tell them what you think, but you're willing to make sure you're on the same wavelength for what, how you're going to work together. Because they might also have a very different expectation than you do.

21:08
So it creates an open dialogue between the two of you to really say, what's your view? What's my view? How did these two work together? And this is why it's important beforehand to understand what would you be willing to do to keep your boundary?

21:21
When you have that solid, and let's say, for example, they say, you know what? Yeah, I'd be willing to work till 5 .15, but not anything past that. Like, you know what? I have these meetings that always go towards the end of the day five that run over, are you still okay with that?

21:33
This is one example of those types of conversations, but it's making sure that it's open. It's not like, hey, I'm going to tell you what my boundaries are, and I want you to listen. It probably is not going to go off that well, but hey, I'd like to make sure we're on the same page with how we're working together going forward and see if we're on the same page.

21:50
Creates an open space where there is dialogue. Yeah, and then listening back to them and understanding, you know, what the needs are, like what they need from you most specifically, and maybe what's not so important and constantly checking in and getting clarity on what the priorities are.

22:06
Absolutely. Strictly based off your personal experience, what have you observed? Is there anything that might not become a knowledge? Stress is not a badge of honor. That's one thing that I've seen a lot.

22:25
I've read a lot about is that people think, you know, if I'm busy, if I'm stressed, that's a good thing. That's how I get ahead in life. And actually it's quite the opposite. It will probably bring you down towards the end of your life because of the.

22:37
detrimental effect stress has on your well -being, on your mental and your physical health and your longevity as well. That's one thing that I think people think if I push hard enough, everything's going to work out right in the end.

22:50
Not necessarily. So that's one I think is like people probably a lot in the corporate world thing, just if I push just a little bit more, it'll get better. That's not always true. And you know, one, one phrase I hear a lot that I get triggered by is, and I think a lot of us do this in a lot of different areas of our life is, I'll be happy when or as soon as I get here, then.

23:11
And it's like, no, you need to be happy now. This life now you get because that that thing always gets pushed. I mean, everyone's got this in their head. Remember how you said you were going to get in shape when remember how you said you were going to do something special with your relationship after this, we just have to get through this.

23:29
Or once I get to that point, we need to shorten the timeline on that a lot more and really live our lives. Absolutely, 100%. Tomorrow never comes. That's the interesting thing. Because by the time it's here, it's today, right?

23:46
So it never actually comes. So yeah, setting those things and really being like, are you happy with where you are now? Okay, what steps and actions are you going to take to get to there? And what's your timeline behind that a date?

23:59
Yeah, I think we probably touched on this, but I wanted to ask you about the unconventional stuff, the unexpected results. I think we touched on that a little bit. I did want to ask about your so you're a high performer, you're very focused, you're, you know, you're, you're a certified performance coach.

24:20
And this is a health podcast, you know, I'm trying to get you into guys and as good a ship as it can possibly get it. Tell me about your breakfast routine, your breakfast smoothie, your breakfast meal, like how do you get set up and energized for the day?

24:35
Absolutely. So routine wise, wake up. And yes, I do start off with coffee in the morning, just to wake myself up for the most part, but I usually wake up around 430 or five. And I kind of get myself ready for a few minutes.

24:48
But while I'm doing that, I will listen to motivational podcasts. I've got a few people that I listened to, there's one, there's like two specific ones that I will almost listen to on repeat, that just really give me what I like to call the tingles.

25:00
It just energizes me, it makes me feel like, all right, I'm ready to go. And which seems counterintuitive to the next thing, because usually the next thing is I now will go and meditate for 10 to 30 minutes, depending on what time I wake up.

25:13
And I'll spend that time just relaxing and getting focused. And then after I've gone and really like cleared out how I feel and prepared what I feel like is really prepared myself for the day. And it varies the type of meditation that I do.

25:26
Sometimes I'll just like breathing, sometimes I'll focus on a specific thought that I have to focus meditation. And sometimes I'll use like the pasta meditation where it's the body point focus type thing.

25:37
I'll do that for the 10 to yes, but so the meditation not guided no music Usually not I and this it's one way for other people I tried doing I I give guided meditations But I don't do them so much because usually I find myself focusing too much on what the person is saying Rather than letting it just be experienced for me I know for some people especially when they're starting out can be helpful like okay now Focus on this now do the body scan focus on your toes and all the way up and all the way down So they need that kind of guided so they don't get stuck in their own mind And it gives them something else to focus on rather than the thoughts in their own head Yeah,

26:18
and I mean my vote is whatever is easiest for you to access. That's where you start, right? Absolutely. There's no right way to do it. I certainly want to get into the rest of this morning routine You mentioned there's two podcasts you put on repeat that that gets you going tingling Mm -hmm Yeah, Motiversity is one.

26:38
And then also Eddie Panero is another one that I like listening to. He has a mixture of like motivational quotes and ideas, but also he has music that is very well like aligned to what he's saying. So like almost like emotionally guides you through like conquering something or doing something.

26:58
So it's like very invigorating. But Motiversity is a big one. There's actually a specific one from Tony Robbins that I listened to where he talks about, you know, everybody encounters extreme stress in your life, but it's a matter of what do you, how do you react to that stress?

27:14
And he kind of goes into that and thought about the power of choice and things like that. There's also the other specific one is one that's a combination like Matthew McConaughey, less Brown, Jordan Peterson, and a bunch of people convolution together.

27:30
And he just very seamlessly works through just very motivational type stuff. Nice. Yeah, I hadn't listened much to Les Brown and I had a client where we were working out and he's like, Matt, put on Les Brown YouTube.

27:46
And man, I like I had to stop and like take notes from my morning workout class because like there were some good quotable things that had to get in there. So I mean, Les Brown got me recently. Yeah, he is really good.

27:58
Super powerful. All right, let's get back into this morning routine. Coffee, meditation. Yep. And then after that, if it's light enough, I'll either try and go for a quick hike or run, or I'll take champ, our dog out with us for a quick hike.

28:17
That's when it's light enough in the morning because I also start at 7am for my work. Or I'll cycle indoors to get a good exercise in on that. Once I'm done with everything then, either my wife's going to make my breakfast or all my breakfast, depending on what she's got going on for the day, but it's like 2am.

28:35
eggs, two scoops of lean bacon, a hundred grams of egg whites, just cooked in olive oil on a pan with a little bit of seasoning, salt, pepper, and a little bit of garlic powder. So that is the like the protein aspect of the breakfast.

28:52
Then the smoothie. So the smoothie is mixed dark berries, eight ounces of orange juice, turmeric, turmeric, ginger, hemp hearts, acai, and maca powder. And then I also take one tablespoon of chia seeds and this green blend mixture that's like kale and a bunch of other stuff mixed into this green mixture, pour it in and just blend it up.

29:21
And I have those two things for my breakfast. Oh, and then beet powder. Wow. So you're getting, you're getting your high protein and you're getting your nutrient density. And I like the dark, a lot, a lot of good stuff in there for brain function.

29:35
So that's the thing. A lot of people, they focus so much on, it's going to sound weird, physical performance, like, okay, I gotta have protein. I gotta have carved to fuel my run. It's like, yeah, how are you feeling your brain or helping your brain recover from free radicals and all these other things that you, people don't focus on.

29:53
They think about, Oh, you know, gotta have enough protein to grow muscles. Or I gotta have enough carbs to do that run. Or I've got to have enough fats for, so fat is an issue. One helps with brain as well.

30:02
So all these low fat diets, you're actually might be hurting yourself in the end. Yeah. Um, we were talking about, uh, all right. So after breakfast, then it's off to work. Yeah. After breakfast is usually just like, so I work remote, so I don't have to try.

30:20
I don't have to go anywhere for work anymore. So I just come into the office and start it at seven. Um, all right, here's, here's a curve ball. Um, all right. Let's say, uh, busy day. Now it's lunchtime.

30:32
It's hungry. You have to eat something. You're in a hurry. What is your go to quick grab meal? Or if you got Uber Eats or something, I mean, like, how do you solve that problem? If you're, if you find yourself unprepared, which sounds pretty rare for you.

30:46
Yeah, usually it's not, it's always something. So usually have something healthy that I can quickly sometimes I'll, so I eat five times a day. Oh wow. Yeah. So I'll have breakfast and then a snack one, which is usually nuts.

30:57
So I'll have like, uh, mixed nuts with almonds and cashews and things like that. And then I'll have a lunch, which is a mixture of like, it's, uh, low carb tortillas and, um, things like that. And, but if I'm ever looking for something, I'll try and switch around one of my stacks and be like, all right, I can go grab my apple for lunch.

31:14
And then I'll switch the other one over. And so I always have something that can I rotate through and make alternate. Nice. I like it. And so five times a day means you've, you've really got the meditation, the morning exercise, the breakfast and the clean food multiple times a day.

31:31
I mean, your energy is level and stable and you're. sleep is good. And so you're really, you're, you're psychologically optimized. It's a, it's a nice, nice program. I like it. We were discussing the other day, the question about is there anything you do with your relationship that might deviate from the norm, or seem unusual.

31:54
And I was sharing how me and my wife have had separate bedrooms. It's worked out just fine for us. Yeah. So don't do the separate bedroom thing, but we do, we have separate beds mostly because I move around a lot at night and then she doesn't get to sleep as well.

32:10
So in order for us to, you know, sleep well and consider the wellbeing of, you know, our mental wellbeing with getting enough rest, we have that we're not far apart, but enough that like, we don't disturb each other's actual sleep.

32:22
Yeah. And like, I just think about like the math of sleep, like, I've got my aura ring. And I can check my daily weekly monthly and yearly, how much time I sleep per night. And over the last four years, on average, I've slept an extra five or 10 minutes every night, on average, over the last few years.

32:43
So like I was getting six hours and 30 minutes, now I'm getting like seven hours and 15 minutes. And if you got a partner in your bed, and every night it's five minutes, every, they're sick, you're sick, temperature schedules are different, you know?

32:57
Like it just, sleep is so important. And you know, I just want people to be open to that option. I realize some people are wired in a way where that's never an option for them. And I totally understand, but I want to normalize that option, not being that strange to not see that the human being that's constantly waking you up.

33:16
Yeah, it's to each their own, right? It's whatever works and solves the sleep conundrum. And I'll say conundrum, for some people, it is a tough one to go and figure out, but work with, choose what works best for you.

33:27
And if it's like sleeping in separate beds, sleeping in separate rooms, it's like find other ways to spend time together than if that's the concern. And then you start to questions like, okay, if I'm feeling the need to do that, now sometimes there's cuddling and things like that, but there's opportunity for that, but you're not going to do that while you're sleeping though.

33:45
Like, I think a lot of us get customized to the movies of like, you see videos of these couple, they're sleeping next to each other, or like the night will, advertisers, whether they're sleeping right next to each other, like how many people actually do that?

33:57
Like people, probably not that big. Right, yeah, exactly. And that's a really important thing is like, if you don't get the proper amount of sleep, I mean, there's been studies shown in the military, when you take people and decrease their level of sleep to a certain level, they perform horribly.

34:15
I mean, horribly, I mean, I can't even remember, it was like 60% decrease in like performance or something. It was a ridiculous number. Yeah, there seems to be, I know Elon Musk definitely talks about like six hours is where like he noticed his personal productivity was shipped.

34:31
And if he's less than six, he's better off just sleeping with that time. Because of the mistakes and the productivity costs from not sleeping. Yeah. And you know, it was important. I think you asked an interesting question the other day, we were chatting about this.

34:48
And you're like, Matt, you know, how much it when you don't sleep next to each other, like maybe it's because or like if you feel the need to have to sleep next to each other, maybe ask the question, how much time do we really spend together when we're awake?

35:06
So do you spend enough time together when you're awake? I just want people to think about that for a second. And if you were to spend more time with what might that look like for the listeners? Exactly.

35:18
Yeah, exactly. Moving on here. In the last year, is there anything that you have changed your mind about? hmm last year is something that I've changed my mind about um I think the biggest thing is and a lot of this came from things I learned at performance coach university was like I have more control over my mood in my state than anything else so I'm I'm a huge proponent of state management and one of the things I've learned about not only using it on myself but teaching it to other people and really getting it to a point that I can help people get into a certain state is that the external environment can only affect your state if you let it and I have so much more control over my mood in my state when I recognize that I had control over it um can you walk us through an example of how you behaved before and now how you would do things differently absolutely so before I get on a meeting and I would be super reactive because either I was anticipating how the meeting was going to go or the meeting afterwards I'm still kind of revving from the interaction because maybe it wasn't positive in the past I would just let that continue to fester in my mind like oh I've done something wrong or you know getting getting anxiety and panicking like oh should I've done something different and then the rest of my meetings kind of get shot from there because it's like I'm no longer focused on what I'm doing at the time I'm focused on the meeting that already occurred which it goes back to like what I like to call mental time and mental time is where even though the meeting only lasts for 30 minutes I still still spent another two hours thinking about that that's the mental time versus the physical time so I'm really big on saying great yeah you only have a meeting but how much mental time was that meeting so that's what I did before but now when I have that I go okay what do I want to feel like now I want to feel prepared for this upcoming meeting.

37:32
OK, imagine a time that I was prepared for an upcoming meeting and get into that state. So really controlling the sights, the sounds, the smells, the feelings of the physiology and the words I tell myself to almost snap myself, snap state exercises out of the way.

37:48
I was saying like, I can control this. I can go and change my mood because I'm the one in control of it. And that's what I'll do. So no longer am I spending two hours a minute. I'm like, yep, that happened.

37:59
I recognize it, but this is the way I want to show up now. And that's where I will go and be like, all right, find that state and get to it. Yeah. And I've always just done my best to position my physiology to where like I stay calm.

38:13
But you will get into these triggering situations where you will be thrown off. And I mean, one of the greatest gifts you can ever give somebody is teaching them how to just be able to snap their fingers and change the mood.

38:24
And that's the quality of your life is a quality of your emotional experience. Absolutely, makes a world of a difference. And then, you know, you identified something you call mental time, like, you know, just twice last week, I had a miscommunication with two different people, and they were relatively insignificant and they won't have any negative bearing or outcome.

38:49
But you know, how much mental time was I thinking about that stressing about that internalizing that in my feelings, that's a lot of mental time. And, you know, I like to create conditions in my life where like, I don't have those stressful scenarios as much as I try to, because it does consume us, even though it doesn't take up time, you know, I'm trying to hang out with my son and I'm actually worried about that thing.

39:13
Absolutely. So when you consider like, time, don't just think about the physical time, but think about the mental time you spend on something. And honestly, sometimes it is good to have longer mental time, if you have a joyous interaction, then that mental time connection, so then you have joy from that experience that extends beyond that 30 minute interaction or that one hour interaction.

39:35
So it goes both ways. It's almost like when you plan a trip, just thinking about the anticipation of the trip is like so much fun, like as much fun as the actual trip. Exactly. And it goes back to mental time and it goes back to the state.

39:49
You're controlling the state of joy and excitement from planning that trip. And then you're going to go and actually experience the joy and excitement. So you've almost doubled the amount of joy and excitement you can have.

40:01
Yeah. Yeah. So being able to turn that on, that off, being aware of that and then having a choice. Exactly. All right. So with the clients you've worked with, what are some of the common limiting beliefs that are holding them back?

40:20
It's actually a word that is holding the most people back. Should any time I meet with clients, I tell them. Why do you should should causes the most amount of stress in people's lives. And when they go and remove that, or I say, okay, use a different word than should either I won't, I want, or I can't.

40:44
If you won't, then don't do it. Then you have a choice. If you want that something you want to do, it's no longer a should you want to, and I can't might be a physical limitation, a time limitation or something like that, then it's no longer I should.

40:58
Shoulds are things that the external world enforces on us and it adds a lot of stress to people's lives because then you work on other people's or external expectations rather than your own. So I kind of had two and I guess for one, the other one is just like the concept that stress is just a part of my life.

41:17
That is true to a degree. There's two types of stress. There's you stress and de -stress. De -stress is the things that gives us anxiety, panic, and make us worry. You stress is the things that actually improve us of dad bods.

41:30
For example, when you have somebody do, when you have to do your exercises in the morning, that's you stress, that is stress. That's improving the individual and improving their lives. That's a good types of stress.

41:40
Then there's de -stress, which is like worrying about a meeting in the future that you can't change until the meeting comes to fruition. That's de -stress. So stress is, can be a part of your life, but when people assume that just constant stress is a part of their life, that's the misconception.

41:59
I think a lot of people have it's stressful because you're letting it be stressful. I think, you know, I've got, I'm thinking of one person in particular that would say, you know, that's just the way it is.

42:12
Like, that's just how it works. Like, you know, it's stressful that that's, that's just part of the game. You know, that's just what I've accepted as my life. And there's no belief that the outcomes could still be achieved.

42:25
Without the stress and without those adjustments, gosh, you know, to, to paint a picture of that and then to get somebody to shift or to give them an experience about that, like, how can we start when, when there's just a lot of resistance there?

42:39
I think the biggest thing is to be like the control of the controllables. That's the one thing I really like to focus on. It's like, is there, can you control the situation to make it less stressful?

42:53
And then if you can take action, if you can take action, you can decrease your amount of stress because then you stress often comes from the lack of control. When we can't control something, we get stressed.

43:04
So the other part of it, if you can't control it, don't worry about it. So it's the shift from worry and anxiety to control the controllables. If you can't control it, it's out of your hands. Don't worry about it.

43:17
So it's a big shift to try and say, and I know it's easy for me to say, but I've been through it, so trust me, don't worry about the things you can't control. Cause it doesn't do you. any good either now or in the future.

43:28
If anything, you're suffering to suffering through it twice once now and once in the future. Yeah, that must be something in my personal relationship that I won't get into. Moving on. What comes to mind when I say what's the best advice you've ever received?

43:52
Best advice I've ever received is fall down seven times and get up eight and keep going. The idea behind this is like we learn the most when we fall down, but if you don't get back up from falling down, you're not going to progress.

44:09
And that's probably one of the biggest things I've learned so many things from starting my own business, going through extreme stress and burnout, but I fell down evaluated. And then I got back up actually came the part of that also came from I think he was the coach of the Lakers I cannot remember his name, but he took the same one is like not only just fall down But he sits there for a moment evaluates What went wrong before he gets back up that way he can be better and improve The next time around but that's why the biggest one fall down seven times and get up eight Yeah,

44:41
and and and don't just get up and do the same thing like reflect Yes All down reflect get up Exactly Yeah, reflect take the time Um don't take too much time because sometimes you you get a little lazy.

44:55
You don't want to get back up And I think you know people are you know If you lose A hundred times but you win three times like if those three wins are big it's worth a hundred losses And I just don't think people recognize that like the history and the track record of of a champion and end of a winner Behind them is a bunch of failure a ton of more than you'd ever expect um And I just don't think people understand that like people don't just walk through life winning like they're winning as a product of them Losing a lot and learning a lot Good example of that is um Edison when he was making I think it was a light bulb um I think I'm sure many people hold this but i'm gonna say it anyway It's the idea that he was in the lab and they were working on a light bulb and it exploded And the his assistant came in like what are you doing?

45:47
You're getting you know You're you keep failing and failing and failing. Why do you keep doing this? Like no, i'm not failing. I just found out 999 ways to not make a light bulb And that's the idea is like it's not a failure you're learning from each one, but if you never start You'll never learn Yeah, yeah, I i'm a big fan of that quote I like that one a lot I haven't failed.

46:12
I just found all the right ways. It doesn't work. Yeah, that's it. Yeah all the right ways. It doesn't work Yeah, I always get that quote wrong But yeah, it's the concept that if you, you know, you learn by doing, and if you don't do, you'll never learn.

46:26
Not sure you can learn from other people, but for the most part, you still gotta try it yourself. Yeah, yeah, definitely. When I ask, what is the, what comes to mind when I ask, what's the worst advice you've ever received?

46:39
Or is there a tradition of belief, something we were taught in school, just off your experience, worst advice you've ever received? Worst advice. Hmm, that one's a little bit tough. Worst advice I've ever received.

46:57
Probably that people are who they are and they will never change. It's this whole fixed mindset. And I didn't even know what it was in the past until I think I read Brienne Brown's, I think I got her name right, book on the fixed versus growth mindset.

47:10
And a lot of people are stuck in this fixed mindset, like your genetics, the way you were raised, it's always gonna be, who you are. And that's probably the worst advice I've ever heard is like, you can't change.

47:19
It's like, there's proof in the pudding that people can change. But it took me a long time to really get out of my own way to realize that. I think that's the same idea behind the stress is like people are always stressed.

47:29
There's no way around that. Like, yeah, you just have to make the right choices. Yeah. And you know, I think sometimes here's something I've noticed about myself in the last year is that I've always, you know, ran hard, kind of just going hard.

47:45
You know, I went through a burnout series in my mid to late twenties and just going so hard. And then like in the last year, I had a number of like extremely stressful things that were sort of in and out of my control.

48:00
And then they got resolved. But then I noticed my mind it was like, I was still running this stress. And I was like, I'm still now I'm like looking for something to get stressed out about. And I had to really like recognize that and then go and practice some, you know, relaxing, some yoga, some meditation, and I had to like, like, check my nervous system back into like, all right, you're not stressed out.

48:24
Nothing stressful is going on reset here. But I think a lot of us in that environment are running on this, it's almost like an addiction to these stressful chemicals that we always have to detox from physically and just habitually in our mind.

48:38
Yeah, and that's the that's what chronic stress can really do to people is they get stuck in that fight or flight mentality constantly. And it takes a massive reset to get out of that. I mean, for me, it took me a good number of years.

48:52
One, a lot of it was through trial and error didn't really have like a guide read some books and things like that. But a lot of it was just trial and error and getting me there. But it's that, that physical and mental reset of like, the stress is gone.

49:06
Don't have to keep looking for it. It doesn't have to be there. And that's a big deal. Yeah, that's a big deal. What are some unique habits or routines you've seen high performers adopt that others might find surprising?

49:28
There's actually one that I sometimes recommend to people actually is setting fake calendar invites on your calendar at the end of day. In like different calendars, you can set things as private. So if you like have a corporate area, you can set things as private.

49:42
So that way it goes back to choice. If you want to work a little longer, you want to help on something, you can choose to let the person go into your personal calendar invite. But it also gives you an easy way to say, Hey, I've got something, I've got something going on.

49:58
I'm going to go do this. You don't have to tell somebody what it is if you want to. You can. And who knows? Other people might adopt it as well to truly get themselves a break point. This really comes as a big thing as well for people who work from home.

50:12
many people don't roll out of bed and they'll immediately start working and then they will keep working because there's no transition point anymore where people were going into an office or where they were leaving an office and having to go do things.

50:23
So having those calendar invites actually helps people not only like tell other people, Hey, you know, boundaries of, you know, I've got something I need to go do, but it also is a checkpoint to themselves.

50:33
Like, Oh, that's my reminder that my day is over. And I kind of like the idea of like, look, I've got something scheduled, but you know, since you're so important and this project is so important, I'm going to go ahead and make an adjustment here because this is a special situation.

50:49
And then people feel like you're bending over backwards to, to support whatever that is. It's almost like you get these like weird imaginary bonus points. There you go. Yeah. And it is, it goes all back to the power of choice.

51:01
You get to choose what you're using your time for. Yeah. Um, in the corporate world, uh, you know, you see people living up to the, the expectations of their superiors. And, um, you know, some people live up to the expectations of their, their parents.

51:20
Um, tell me about blood is thicker than water. Yeah. So I actually saw this the other day, um, is that a lot of people, and it's interesting, it comes up on like YouTubes and TikToks and other things like that, where people say, do you know the full words behind blood is thicker of water?

51:36
The full words are the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. So it actually almost means the opposite of what people take it for. Often people say blood is thicker than water. You're supposed to be with trust and, you know, do whatever you can for your family.

51:49
And that's true. It's a choice you can make if you want to. But actually what it is saying is that the blood of the covenant, like a group of people like that chose to be together is thicker than the water of the womb being family ties, genetics, and relationships.

52:05
Tying that back to the corporate world, there is this level of, um, and in the past, it was probably a lot stronger of life. like trust in the company, trust in the manager. I've got to go please the, you know, the manager to make them do.

52:17
It's like, that is a choice. It's not a de facto. You have to, and I think a lot of people get stuck in this cycle of like, well, I need to prove myself. It's like, are you doing your job? Are you proving yourself to you and to the people who are important to you?

52:32
Now, maybe your manager is important to him because you respect them and you have a good relationship with them and you want to make a good situation. That's different than saying, because they're my manager, I want to prove to them.

52:45
It's a choice. It all goes back to choice and the power of choice. Um, I want to get into, all right. So people are listening to this podcast and some people are probably identifying with some of these problems.

53:00
Now there's, they can go out and they can figure out how to solve these problems. They can listen to more cup. podcast like this and collect details and figure it out themselves. But I think a big hack in life is something called who not how.

53:18
So instead of going and listening to 1000 podcasts and reading all of the books, I think it's best to identify someone who has already done what you're trying to do and go straight to them and get all the cliff notes and fast track your way there.

53:32
This is a problem that you are the who that is the specialist in solving it. So if somebody wants to just have a conversation with you to just get to know a bit more about your business and what you do, what does that process look like?

53:46
Yeah, absolutely. You can either go to my website and click on a free consultation, we'll set up 30 minutes to just talk through what you got going on, what I can do to help you. And sometimes I just give you some ideas about, you know, what your situation is and suggestions you can go and take to actually improve your situation.

54:04
Also, shoot me an email can do the same process to get connected and see what we can do to work through some of the things that you might have going on. Yeah, and you know, passionate coaches generally like to give you an early win, you know, and you know, stay in touch with it and just start a relationship.

54:19
And you know, long term, if that's a good fit, then that's a good fit. And major transformation can happen. That's what that's what we do at Performance Coach University. There you go. Honestly, I'll have to say, looking back when I went through my burnout and my stress recovery on my own, that is something that I wish I had gone and looked for or pursued was either somebody who had already been through it,

54:45
or like, yeah, like a coach. Honestly, back then, I had no concept of a coach, I'll admit, I wasn't even thinking about I mean, I'd heard about like Bill Gates as a coach and open one free has a coach and you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger has a coach and sports coaches, but I never thought, you know, someone like me would need a coach.

55:04
I wasn't like a multi -billion dollar person. But now what I know now about coaching and who it serves and who it reaches and really the true benefits of it. I honestly wish I would have probably would have streamlined a lot of this stuff that I went through to have a coach and not spend years trying to get out of burnout.

55:23
Yeah, yeah. There you go. Um, all right. You know, we could wrap it up now. I'm not sure what your time's like, or we could run through some fun questions. Do you have a few extra minutes or should we wrap it up?

55:35
Um, maybe I think we can take a few more questions. I don't have an odd skill. I try to think about this. I ain't got one. All right. The rapid fire questions, right? All right. Let's just run through these and then we'll wrap it up.

55:54
So you know, what pops in your head quick is what was your favorite food to eat when you were a kid? Pizza. Pizza. Dude, pizza's like the best. If you could have a drink or a fun hangout with anyone, dead or alive, who would it be?

56:09
Jim Rohn. I know he just recently passed away, but his content really spoke to me in terms of the biggest thing that hit me was like, spend more time working on yourself than you do on your job. That was some, it was a huge impact to me and it really changed the way I thought about what I was doing in life.

56:29
Where would you and Jim Rohn go? What would y 'all eat, what would y 'all drink? I'm not like a big drinker, so I'd probably take them out for coffee and get like a, go to like Panera. Go to Panera, get some like broccoli soup and a good sandwich and like coffee.

56:43
All right, wrapping fire here. What is, when I say the book that has influenced you the most all time? Ooh, a book that has influenced me the most of all time. Which one pops in your head first? The willpower instinct is the one that pops into my head.

57:07
The concept that willpower is something you kind of control. I think that's what it's called. Is it a power instinct? Yeah. It just gave me a very different concept of willpower and how it's like you, it's like your energy and you need to be conscious about what you choose to spend it on and how you refill it too.

57:26
So that's why I spent a lot of time like focusing on like energy management rather than time management. Yeah, I think that's, yeah, I'm totally with you on that. All right, last rapid fire question.

57:38
What is your favorite hype song? It's My Life by Bon Jovi. Oh, I've used that one. Back in college, we're about the same age. Man, back in college, I think that song came out. I like that one. That's, it just like, it just really speaks to me.

57:54
It's like, yeah, it's your life. Do what you're gonna do with it. I make the playlist for the guys. every single morning, I'm playing half an hour of music, so I have my job being a freaking DJ, so that's one I can add to the list for sure.

58:08
Very nice. Very nice. It's a good song. Good song. All right, Steven, we're going to wrap it up. Thank you so much. This was very, very interesting, very useful, and I'm looking forward to sharing it with all my corporate friends, for sure.

58:24
Any last words? We're going to have all his links down in the show notes. Last words is that, remember, you have a choice. Remember, you have a choice in what's possible for you when you realize that.

58:42
All right, that's it for today, guys. Thank you all so much for listening. Have a great day. We'll see you next time.