Episode 30 with Toby Wedgle-World Class Divorce Coach

00:00
Okay. Welcome to the War on Dad Bods podcast. Are you wondering whether or not you should get a separation in your marriage? Have you decided to get a divorce and it's gotten more difficult than you expected?

00:15
How do you effectively co -parent after getting a divorce? Today, we've got Toby. Toby, what's your last name? Gradual. Gradual. Toby Gradual is a divorce coach helping people navigate the trials and challenges of divorce.

00:28
She helps people through their personal struggles that arise during a divorce and teaches strategies to deal with direct conflicts with their co -parents. She helps people identify real problems to know how to deal with their ex and to strengthen the bonds with their kids, to emerge on the other side of their divorce healthier and stronger and live the life that they deserve.

00:47
That sounds really exciting for some people. Great. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. How did you become a divorce coach? What attracted you to this career? I got divorced in 2017. I was in what's known as a high -conflict divorce situation.

01:13
High -conflict divorce is when one of the parents keeps the other parents locked in battle in some way, either through the court system or through ongoing arguments in emails and interactions and things like that.

01:29
I ended up finding a divorce coach. I didn't know it was a thing. Within months, it changed my whole life. It changed the way I relate to my ex. It changed the way that I relate to my kids. I really got so much out of it that I thought I really have to do this for other people because it's so valuable and not enough people know about it.

01:51
What was the biggest thing that you were like, oh, wow, I wish I had known that when I went before I hired or went through it? all this trouble with the legal battles. Right, right. It really was that I that I was unknowingly participating in the conflict too.

02:10
Right, not that I was starting the arguments necessarily, but that I was letting them go on because of the way that I was relating to my ex. And then the manipulation that was happening with my kids and stuff I was not.

02:26
Yeah, I was engaging in that in that conflict too. And I really had to learn how to disengage from that conflict on my own. It's interesting because like the courts, the justice system, they don't have, I'm guessing they don't have very good tools or anything to guide you through this.

02:40
They've got enough paperwork and stuff to go through. That's right. That's absolutely right. And you know, some some attorneys are really good at, you know, walking you through the the emotional stuff that comes up, but not all of them are.

02:56
And you know, that's like, $300 every hour that you're spending trying to sort through everything that comes up and they don't have that kind of time We don't all have that kind of money And sometimes the lawyers may not have that that exact expertise when it comes to communicating these these issues, right?

03:12
Definitely. Um, it's more popular now popular common now for attorneys to understand About high conflict personalities and personality disordered people when they are in you know Narcissistic personality disorder and stuff when they are involved in the court system But not always and not everywhere.

03:31
And so, um, you really are on your own trying to defend yourself against Um people who are willing to lie in court or willing to manipulate the children in order to get their needs met Um something that only someone with your experience going through divorce and then you've got a background in an acupuncture which is in health which I think is also relevant to to our healthy listeners Definitely.

03:58
Um, yeah, so something that only somebody with your experience would know. Um, yeah Um I think well, yes, sir. So i've been in acupuncture for acupuncturists for 20 years and i've been in health care and Coaching people on how to like live happier healthier lives um, and I think Possibly the the thing that i've learned about being by being an acupuncturist and a coach is that um Like like therapy is great Um,

04:28
and but really sometimes we just need like strategy And we need support and we need somebody to like help us make good decisions We don't always have to like process our feelings And like go back into our childhood and like look at why we got into this situation I mean, it's definitely helpful and sometimes what we really need is just like here are the things you need to do To get healthy.

04:51
Here are the things you need to do to live a better life Um, yeah So the distinction between a therapist and a coach, a coach is going to help you move forward and help you solve the problems you're dealing with that are right now, right with you in front of you with an outcome that you want, whereas a therapist is going to sort through your history, your emotions, your trauma and all that.

05:13
That's right. Exactly right. And I think too, in terms of a divorce coach, you know, a therapist isn't really going to be able to sort of say, okay, well, what sort of things are you putting in your parenting agreement and then let's look at those and figure out which strategies are going to be the best thing for you and your kids.

05:31
They'll talk about why you're afraid to make certain decisions, but your divorce coach will talk about why you're afraid to make those decisions and then what decisions you should make based on those feelings.

05:42
And I think the lawyers are too tied up with the paperwork and they don't have the training or education to get into the nitty gritty of the communications and those things. That's right. They don't, they're there, they're there to help you win, right?

05:52
They're there to help you win the case. So it's not necessarily about all of the sort of the whole emotional dynamic that's happening. Based off your experience, have you observed anything that might not be common knowledge?

06:07
Yeah, this one's, I mean, it's kind of sad, but it's very, it's really true is that the family court system is not really set up to help you like get justice when you're getting a divorce. I follow a lot of coaches and divorce experts on Instagram, and there are some really terrible stories about families and what can happen in the court system because people think they're going to go into it getting a good ruling and the judge is going to see that this other person is really not an okay person or we're going to get a fair and balanced decision based on all the evidence that we're putting out there,

06:52
but really that's not the case. Bad parents get their kids equal custody regardless of how dangerous they are oftentimes. So if you're looking for justice, it's not really likely that you're going to get that from the family court when you're going through a divorce.

07:15
So then another option would be to actually have some motivation from your co -parent to actually get along in a peaceful way without having to rely on the court systems, which you're saying are pretty unreliable.

07:29
Yeah, I mean, that's the ideal situation. Like if you can have a collaborative approach to your divorce, it's going to go so much better. I mean, I know I'm painting sort of like a bleak picture, but there are plenty of families that really do collaborate, right?

07:46
Like I have a client who they still do like family dinners once a month, even though they're divorced and they took a couple of days. family trips together. And so there are ways to co -parent that are positive and nourishing and constructive for everybody.

08:04
Yeah, that's possible too. As you bring that up, I mentioned one of my buddies who's a dad, Bob Warrior, he actually just went to Disney World with his co -parent and the kids and everything. And, you know, it worked out okay.

08:18
You know, as probably, you know, as good as it can go. And one of his things was he said, you know, one thing I learned, Matt, was to stop feeling responsible for my ex's behavior. Can you elaborate on that at all?

08:32
Yeah, that's fantastic. I mean, that's really the piece that I got from my coach as well, right? Like we are not, we have no ability to change or control another person, right? And then, that our behavior and our emotions and our choices really don't make the other person behave a certain way.

08:56
So we can't, the sooner we let go of the need to feel responsible for somebody else's feelings, whether to make them feel better or to make them start being nicer to us or whatever it is, the easier the dynamic becomes.

09:13
Hmm, so you have to disconnect emotionally from the co -parent, all right. Yeah, it's like they say in AA, like stay in your own lane, right? Like stay in your own lane. Like when you're relating to somebody, don't think that you're gonna be able to make them do or be or feel even the way you want them to feel so that you feel safe, right?

09:38
So that you feel calm, so that you feel happy. That's usually why we engage in that kind of behavior. All right, often we get into these situations where we get excited or we get emotional. Are there any unconventional techniques or exercises that you can do to regulate?

10:02
This comes up a lot. Yeah, right, yes, this is really important stuff, right? To be able to regulate your own nervous system, to calm yourself down, basically. That's something I do a lot with my clients, is really learning how to, like when you get triggered, I mean, we've all done it, right?

10:18
Like we get the shitty email and then we're like, all the bells and whistles go off and we're like on fire and we're gonna like type back this email right away. Like don't do that, right? Like slow your roll, right?

10:31
Because when that happens, that's, I mean, maybe everybody kind of knows this, but like the lizard brain kicks in, right? Your limbic system kicks on. That's the back of your brain that's responsible for fight, flight or freeze and that kicks on and then our prefrontal cortex, which is our logic and reasoning, shuts off.

10:48
So it's like run from the tiger. And so we're sitting here and we're like, I'm gonna type an email and I'm gonna tell this person what's up. But we're not thinking logically. So you have to slow your nervous system down in order to be able to respond to the situation.

11:02
All right, so step one, do not take action until you're calm. All right, and maybe think about it for a day or two, unless it's urgent. Yeah, there's no emergency that is not, that can at least wait an hour, right?

11:18
Okay, all right. So you've got an hour to calm down. How do you do it? Yeah, so I mean, it's like all the stuff that you hear and you're like, yeah, yeah, whatever, but it's really actually true. So like deep breaths, right?

11:36
Do people know, do you know the psychological side, right? Have you heard Dr. Hebermann talk about that? Dr. Hebermann. Not exactly, maybe you can show us. yeah totally it's the best thing in the whole world okay it's called the psychological side so you take a deep breath slow deep breath in through your nose okay and then when you get to the top of that inhale you take in another quick inhale through your nose like a sniff and then you breathe out slowly through your mouth right really really slowly good and then you do that again right you breathe in through your nose and you get to the top of that inhale and take another quick one and then breathe out your mouth slowly slowly slowly and really you do that like two three times and that actually signals to your nervous system that you are safe um another really great one actually another really great one you can do it's called orienting in somatic experiencing therapy which is like so you sit up you put your make sure your feet are on the ground or you can stand if you're and you really feel your feet on the ground and then use your eyes and sort of track around your room where they and really take in what you're seeing that again signals to your nervous because when we get triggered our nervous system thinks that something else is really happening right that something dangerous is happening when we orient to our surroundings then our nervous office i'm there's no bear here there's nothing chasing me right now i'm okay and that tells your brain to slow down and then switch into logical thinking too yeah and that makes sense because we get into such of this tunnel vision of like anger and of this emotional high what i've had that described and i think you've described it better but i've had that taught as you know when you're lying on your back look at the ceiling look at the center of the ceiling but focus on the peripherals on you know all the way to the right all the left which is kind of like what you're saying i think it just opens up your brain and gets you out this now reminded like,

13:47
you know, singular, angry, emotional state. And I guess it's what I heard is supposed to lower yourself into your parasympathetic nervous system more of doing that. Exactly. I think I think absolutely I bet.

13:59
I mean, I'm not a neuroscientist, but I'm sure that is it's a similar thing, right? Like opening up your peripheral vision is something that you can do when you're safe, right? Like we think about like predators and prey, like prey animals have their eyes on the side of their head so they can see the periphery, right?

14:16
So they're safe. So we're able to see the periphery and we're not like you said, this narrow focus, then we're not just focused on getting out of there, right? We're able to really see everything that surrounds and we slow down.

14:26
That's awesome. I like that one a lot. Actually, that's gonna reuse that. So history of acupuncture. So I've got a history of personal training. And one question that I've asked people probably 40 ,000 times is, hey, how's your body feel today?

14:43
And then I get to train them. I get to see them perform. I know what they eat. I'm familiar with their lifestyles. You've had a chance to do this via acupuncture and see a bunch of patterns. Like, are there any big ones that you notice consistently in our culture?

14:58
Yes, definitely. Blood sugar dysregulation, that is huge. Like if you, and you probably don't even know you're struggling with your blood sugar, but a lot of people are, right? I mean, you know, like you get into your 40, I mean, like this is like the dad bod situation, right?

15:14
Like, you get into your 40s and your metabolism is changing and you're putting on weight and you don't know why you're not eating much more and you're exercising more probably and you're still gaining weight.

15:25
So that usually has a lot to do with blood sugar dysregulation. It's critical, right, to have your blood sugar be regulated. Most of us are hyperglycemic, right? We've got way too much sugar in our system.

15:38
And so we need to learn how to regulate that. And the other is cortisol regulation, right? Like stress management and cortisol drives so much. You know, I always, I tell my patients like stress is the killer, right?

15:51
It really is. Like everything you think that is wrong with you, like if you're also stressed, it's gonna be much harder to fix if you don't deal with the cortisol problem too. Those are two really interesting trackable metrics.

16:04
So you could get a glucometer and put it on your arm and then you could test out different ways to regulate your blood sugar. And you can track that. And there's, you know, the glucose goddess on Instagram will show you all these different, to keep it low.

16:20
I actually, I got to a point in my mid twenties where I was adrenal fatigued to where I took this test where they tested my saliva four times a day and then came out with a total number. And I think my total sum was like 11 and the reference range was like 23 to 36.

16:42
So then- Sorry, I'm laughing. I mean, in your- in your 20s too, like you're young. Yes, I mean, and I, if you were to say, how'd this happen? It's not really confusing. I mean, I really pushed it aggressively from a lot of different angles, physically, emotionally, chemically, like everything.

16:59
So that's how I got there. And it took about a year of like kind of laying on the couch, getting great sleep, lowering stress, this diet stuff, salts and fats, and some supplements that made sense and we're just pretty all, it's fun.

17:13
It's always fundamental, but apply fundamentals to a environment where there's just sugar everywhere and stress everywhere. That's the challenge, right? Yes, absolutely. But your struggle is so common, right?

17:29
Like so, so common. And then add to it like parenting and a career and trying to like make it through your day. I mean, the struggle is real in that respect, absolutely. I was happy I mastered, or not mastered, but, you know, really organized my cortisol and mastered my energy, my daily energy cycle earlier in life, because now I can't afford to burn out being a parent.

17:51
Right, right. And doing what you do. Absolutely. Getting back to parenting, you're a effective co -parent. Is there anything that you do in your relationship or because you're in a relationship and you're co -parenting that might deviate from the norm or seem unusual?

18:11
Um, I think in terms of my, my, my parenting relationship with my ex, we hear a lot about co -parenting, but there's, there's a whole other style of parenting called parallel parenting, which is basically, you know, co -parenting is like, hey, you know, Jenny is a cold, like, I'm going to take her to the doctor.

18:31
Are you cool with that? Yes, go ahead. Let me know how it goes. Right? Like, that's co -parenting. Parallel like you operate as though the other parent doesn't exist, right? So your parenting is though that other parent on their custody time can do whatever they do.

18:46
You do what you do on your custody time. And really, you only communicate when you absolutely have to. So and that's, that is what I have had to do with my co -parent. And it actually made things much less contentious.

19:02
Because every time you interact, it's an opportunity for conflict when you have somebody who's a high conflict person. And so getting a text about meeting a doctor's appointment turns into like, 50 texts about why you're a terrible person and how the kids are sick all the time at your house, and I'll just take care of it and did it right.

19:22
So you parallel parents, you just take a kid to the doctor, shoot the parent an email at the end of the day saying this is what we did, and leave it. And then you don't have any more conversations about it.

19:33
Does that make sense? It's necessary sometimes because you can't co -parent with certain people. Yes, I can see how certain would be not an option to deal with. But that's concerning for the kids, right?

19:47
So how do you almost reverse some of that raising this or kind of communicate that to the kids? Yeah, that's a great question. And it really depends on, like it depends on how old your kids are and how aware, how well you're able to communicate with your kids in terms of like the vocabulary that you can use with your children.

20:12
Cause you wanna be honest with them, but you don't wanna be like, your dad's really dysregulated and he has a substance abuse. Like you don't wanna do that, right? But you wanna be able to talk to them about how, what they're feeling and you wanna validate their experiences over at the other parents' house.

20:29
Like they went over there and dad was really in a bad mood and he's slamming doors and he's not talking to us all day. It's like, wow, that must've been really scary. You know, why don't you and I talk about ways to handle that if it happens again so that like you can go to your room and you can put on your headphones or you can get out your colored pencils right depending on how old your kid is so you really have to start to have those conversations with them about their own agency rate which is a little bit sad like they're young and we don't want them to have to do those things but like these are lessons we all have to learn like how to deal with difficult people,

21:02
right. So we give them the tools and skills so that they can do that wherever they are starting now. So it's, you know, it's an opportunity for them to grow up quicker. But, you know, it's it reminds me of like a therapy or like an EMDR well like there will be a traumatic experience.

21:22
Well, okay, that happened. And when we're young, we take it, and we kind of incorrectly interpret it and put it over here and then it affects us in this weird way. So I think what you're saying is, you know, let's discuss that.

21:34
Let's process what happened there. What is not normal. What is regular what is acceptable. Did you make a mistake, or, you know, was that just blown out, you know, so let's take a time to reprocess or rememorize that in our nervous system so that it doesn't sit in there as something that causes problems later.

21:54
Yeah, absolutely. Right. Like you like the last thing we want us for our kids to sort of store that, right, somehow and then have to deal with it later. So yeah, giving them the opportunities to talk about it, you know, like, all it takes is one, one safe parent, right.

22:09
You know, like, if if one parent is really just regulated as long as one parent is like, consistent, you know, is authoritative without being an authoritarian or too permissive rate is able to really show up for their kids and provide consistent healthy parenting.

22:27
That is all they need to be able to develop all of these healthy tools and these healthy ways of relating and then not burying that stuff and having it create problems later. Yeah, that's very hopeful.

22:41
Yeah, that's great. Is there anything in the last year that you've changed your mind about? Oh, yeah. Yeah, hustle culture in terms of like developing, definitely about developing this business, but also about being a parent.

22:58
Right? Like, I think we have this notion that like, we've got to be the best, we've got to be perfect, we've got to do everything we can to make things happen, you know, the way we want them to. But slowing down, and like we've been talking about slowing your nervous system down, but really slowing down and not letting things stress you out as much as we think they are stressing us out, really helps you sort of actually helps you meet your goals easier,

23:27
better. Does that make sense? Yeah, well, you'll make, I mean, I always talk about this, I measure my HRV, which is a stress measure. Yeah. I measured that a lot and I think I put up some pretty world -class numbers and wow I want to know my I think my monthly my yearly averages is like 75 or something no that's outstanding it's people always ask me about it and I've got I've done stuff I can talk about it yeah I want to get working to talk about it yeah um yeah we'll come back to that in a second um I forgot where I was going with that sorry well let's just get into that so that the HIV to calm down your nervous system so it measures me with my oaring while I sleep and um so I know that like certain things are really good like for my body type I know that like I get overheated and stressed out and heated and hot so I'm always looking to really calm myself down and I've had some anger you know in the past and I've gotten in lots of fights and stuff but um so I learned like there's a certain type of magnesium I can soak my feet in there's green supplements I find days that I meditate my numbers are better on rolling and stretching especially later at night much better um not eating heavy foods late at night so my body and my heart rates up at night trying to digest food or really eating like a lot of plants on on those days my nervous system is much more relaxed um something like a yoga nidra when you're lying on your back doing a meditation that puts your body to sleep I think soaking your feet in magnesium chloride or taking a bath in magnesium chloride not epsom salt but magnesium chloride no one talks about how effective that stuff is that stuff's amazing do you just get like a liquid is that what you use um I there's these flakes by a brand called ancient minerals they're called magnesium chloride flakes and I soak my feet because it's convenient now that I've got the one year we'll run around it's less convenient but um you know but when I have time away from him to decompress I'll get in the tub and I'll get on the phone and do work or emails and you're soaking the magnesium chloride that's amazing that's fantastic.

25:38
It's so great you figured all that stuff out because it's critical. It really is. I mean for our longevity but just like our day -to -day well -being. Yeah and like the yoga of it all of that because it kind of guides you into you want to be able to that's what it was to have low stress because when you have low stress and you don't make these mistakes you get your goals quicker because you make better decisions and when we get stressed out we tend to say and do things that damage relationships and make our lives very difficult so you can move slower and do less work but you'll make less mistakes and you'll get there quicker.

26:13
That's right that's exactly that's exactly what I was saying and that's awesome. Yes yeah I was able to bring that all the way back totally that was awesome yeah that was great. What comes to mind when I say what's the best advice you've ever received?

26:28
My coach my divorce coach taught me and she learned this from her divorce coach don't just do something sit there. And that has to do with the whole right the whole thing of like one like don't just sit there do something, right?

26:44
And so we've got it all wrong Don't just do something sit there. So when you are triggered to really slow down So you're breathing fill your heart rate and don't do anything when you're angry It's so hard to resist that urge when we're angry or we're scared or whatever But really resist the urge to to take action until You've really calmed down.

27:09
That is the best advice I ever got Don't just do something sit there thinking time, you know, it used to be pushing harder and more is better But now we're in this abundant world where everyone's trying to grab your attention and make decisions for you You really got to sit down and and you know, like there were there was a time where we used to get bored.

27:30
I Don't think anybody's ever bored anymore, you know We would just think about stuff and I think now it you being deliberate about that can be really beneficial Yeah, I think deliberate is the key right like really really focusing on what you want to feel.

27:48
I heard this great thing that Focusing on what you want to feel actually helps your nervous system Settle down. So if you're angry or you're triggered or whatever Focusing on how you want to feel will help you get there.

28:06
Actually that was from I can't remember there's some neuroscientists. Anyways Yeah, so that's real being deliberate So don't just do something sit there. That's the best advice you've ever received what comes to mind I don't want to ask what's the worst advice you've ever received?

28:22
Right, it goes along with what you were talking about about that guy that you knew But that you know about being responsible for other people's feelings and it's really that like You know that we have control over other people people's behavior.

28:39
My my uncle, God bless my uncle, he was like the meanest divorce attorney in the city of Denver, Colorado. And when he was working, and he really advised me a lot during my divorce, and he was always like, you've got to make him, you know, you got to make him do this, you got to make him understand you can't let him do this.

28:57
And then you got to make sure that your lawyer did it. And it was like, this whole illusion of having any control over the other person at all. And I thought that was what I had to do, I had to be tougher, I had to be harder, I had to have stronger, you know, stronger communication and all this, but really, as soon as I let go of his behavior, and his, you know, well, the things that he was doing,

29:23
that was when I started to feel peace and actually, he started to leave me alone. Wow. So that's what got him to boundaries. Yeah, exactly. And it wasn't because I was setting boundaries and being more firm with them.

29:37
It was really just because I was like, I'm at like, I, there's a point where like someone gets a divorce coach and decides to make a change. Like I'm no longer going to be strong and aggressive and fight instead.

29:51
Like what do you do? Do you just send them an email? Like here's what you can expect moving forward. I mean, how does that go? Yeah, that's a great question. No, it just sort of was like, as things, as things came up, um, I just in, I just interacted with them in a different way.

30:08
Right. So, so something that would have really triggered me and been like, you know, you can't do this. This isn't in our agreement. Like I would just nine times out of time, I would ignore what he had put out to me, right?

30:24
Because noticing and recognizing that a lot of what was coming at me was not really about the kids at all. It was really about, you know, things about me that weren't true or things about him that, that he wanted me to know, but it really wasn't about the kid's wellbeing at all.

30:42
So I basically learned to ignore all of that stuff. Um, and over time, I think honestly, you know, when you're the target of somebody's anger, if they're not engaging with you anymore, then you be, if you're not engaging with them anymore, then you become less interesting.

31:01
Right. So then they kind of start backing away because they'll get angry and they'll poke you and you're not really there to be poked anymore. And so they find, you know, typically they'll find another target, but it won't be you.

31:15
Um, this is a random one. If, you know, maybe someone's listening and you know, maybe they're just fighting a lot in their relationship and they're trying to figure out like, is this a situation where like, I, like we should separate and find happiness separately?

31:29
Is this one where like, maybe we can fix it? Um, like what are the Big things to think about there when you're they're kind of just unhappy and they're on the fence and it's a big scary change And is it worth it or is it fixable?

31:44
Wow, okay. Yeah, that's a huge question. Okay. So I'll be sure to ask that one earlier in the podcast. Yeah, no, it's okay Let's go there now. It's great. It's a great question. Great So you you're you're asking really like how does somebody know if this is just like a difficult, you know Like like we have a difficult relationship, but it's it's worth fixing and it's possible to fix it Or it's really like this is really bad and they need to get out of here.

32:12
Is that can we ask? Yeah, yeah, I mean the first thing that comes to mind for me is like is the other person willing to grow? Absolutely. Absolutely, right? Like if you're doing all this like deep personal work and the other person is not willing and keeps engaging in the same behaviors then yeah, then Whether or not you decide to leave but at least you know what you're dealing with, right?

32:35
um there's this great there's this thing in in couples therapy it's called the infinity loop i don't know if you've ever heard of the infinity loop but basically it's like you know my there's there's you and there's me in the relationship and you engage you have a feeling and then you that causes you to to have a certain kind of behavior and then that makes me feel a certain way and then i engage in a certain behavior because of that and then we are in this loop of like feelings and behavior over and over and over again and then what happens is we get pushed sort of out of what's known as your window of tolerance right that place where you're not able to like you're really not able to cope i mean and this is what happens in trauma but in a in a relational sort of situation you get pushed out of your window of tolerance and then the behaviors and the feelings escalate right and then you're just in this infinity loop of a pattern with this person spin out of control totally they absolutely can that's where when you're out of your window of tolerance that's when you're like you know throwing plates and calling each other names and or whatever you know slamming doors and not talking to each other whatever it is behaving in a way that maybe you didn't behave like before that's right i mean not that happens right like our our our relationships really do show us they can show us the best of ourselves and they can show us the worst of ourselves for sure so right so recognizing i think if you're able you and your partner are able to recognize that sure we are in this loop and we're really not we're not treating each other kindly and really what the problem is is this dynamic right it's not you and it's not me it's the dynamic that we have together and if we can work on the dynamic then you and me can be you and i can be in relationship together you know that's interesting um yeah it's a side note um me and my wife we sort of had two relationships.

34:37
And the first time around, you know, we were not the best versions of ourselves. I was not doing things I was super proud of, looking back. And, you know, I think people rarely change, but we decided to make a change, and we were apart for a while, and then we got back together.

34:54
And the second time around, it actually was very different, which I think is probably pretty rare, but it was very different. And now our communication and our happiness and our joy every day is like, I mean, it's so great.

35:06
I never would have thought that we could even do it, but I think it is possible sometimes. And I think it was both of us really working to change and grow and improve ourselves. I think it both people to do that for a bad one to turn good.

35:22
Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask. Was it that when you guys were apart that you both did your work, like you really... Yes, it was very much that. I had some things I had to get out of my head. I had, you know, just accept some things about myself that, you know, needed to just change.

35:42
And then going back in, we had to figure that out. And there were some stumbles at first and we really had to check it and be like, all right, we're not tolerating that. Yeah, good though, right? To recognize, I mean, that's what it takes, right?

35:57
To be able to recognize those, I think too, I'll say this, like when you are in that pattern and you do need to get a divorce, like it really is unhealthy. And like one or both of you cannot stop these unhealthy patterns.

36:11
And certainly like if you're in danger, right? Like you have to get out of there. But if, when you go and do, and this is where like coaching is like totally instrumental, but when you go and do that personal work and then you get into another relationship and you're both like securely attached and you're both, we've both worked on your communication and stuff, then your relationships are amazing,

36:37
right? Because you're like, oh, it's not just that I'm a flawed relational person. I'm actually capable of doing good work and relating in healthy ways and having healthy relationships. And that, I mean, it sounds like you and your wife did that together.

36:51
Yeah, and she's like, she's got a lot of emotional intelligence, much more than me. So I would give her a lot of that credit. And then, one thing that I think that just came up in my mind is, I've had all these one -on -one personal training clients.

37:06
Everyone's married and every marriage is different. And I just had never really experienced or seen like a loving marriage and how it could be. I never saw an example of that. And being with some of these clients, they're like, yeah, we don't fight, we don't yell and scream at each other.

37:24
And I'm like, I don't believe you. Like that's not possible. Like every marriage fights. Like I think some people believe that because they experienced that. and getting to know people over the years, my clients, and hearing like how they kind of, you know, talk me out of, talk me into things or talk me through things, I was like, wow.

37:42
So it is possible to have a peaceful relationship where disagreements will naturally occur, but you can resolve them calmly and peacefully and, you know, with everyone's needs in mind. That's right. Yeah, and that it's constructive, right?

37:56
That it makes the relationship grow, that it deepens your connection with each other. Like those are the, that absolutely is possible if both people are willing and available to do that. So I want to ask you about, so you're able to, you know, we're like robot, you know, flesh here, that like gets reactive and is very human, right?

38:20
And you- I want to hear about your meditation practice because I think this is essential to staying calm and grounded and focused in challenging situations. What is your current meditation practice? I meditate every day, usually about 15 minutes in the morning.

38:39
And I've been doing that since September 11th, when like every like the world all of a sudden became this really, really scary place in 2001. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So 15 days since 2001. Yeah. I mean, you know, there, you miss a day here and there in the beginning, but now it is absolutely without a doubt since I had kids every single day.

39:06
Um, and, um, is it guided? Is there any sound? Um, it changes, right? So sometimes I'll have a practice where it's silent and I'm just like trying to follow my breath. Um, sometimes they do like visualizations based on certain guided meditations.

39:24
I do some guided meditations, but I don't like it when people talk to me too much. So in meditation, so, but there are some great meditations out there. Like some people need the distraction, you know, um, I find the guided ones are easier to like, it is easier to, because you can bring your, your brain plays.

39:42
You're actively kind of doing something. Yeah. Right. Well, and like invariably, I mean, every time you meditate, whether it's like silent or, or guided or whatever, like your mind's going to wander.

39:51
And so when you have a guided meditation, it's sort of like, oh yeah, I'm, this is what I'm doing. I'm not actually planning the next phone call I'm going to make or whatever. So it is really helpful to do.

40:02
And it doesn't really matter. It does not matter. Like just meditate. Like it does not matter what kind of you do, like four minutes and it does not matter. Just do it. It is absolutely the single best thing you can do for your health and your wellbeing.

40:14
Everything. Yeah. Your mental happiness and emotional happiness and emotional stability. Totally. Just start just start like anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, it really like you're not going to be good at it. Nobody's good at it.

40:29
When they started doesn't matter. You'll never be good at it. You just like you just feel better when you do it and it gets quieter and quieter and quieter. So people are listening to this podcast and they're like, All right, I need to talk to Toby.

40:41
I need to get in touch with Toby. Toby. How does your service work? How do people contact you? You know, like, how do you create like, you know, an agreement to coach them through something when there's so much uncertainty?

40:58
Yeah, so okay, so I work one on one with people and that the individual coaching sessions usually are, you know, they're an hour and typically, it's like, I mean, some people need to come every week because they're really in a lot of conflict or they're, you know, getting ready for court or something like that, but most people, it's like every couple weeks, or once a month, or something.

41:24
And a coaching contract, basically, it's like, how do I want to say this? There's not like an end game is your peace of mind. The end game is like having the life that you feel peaceful, and safe, and calm in again.

41:44
Certainly, there's a lot about personal transformation and how you want your life to be at the end of this divorce situation, wherever it is. But I work with people at any point. I'm less the divorce coach that's like, do I want to get divorced or not?

42:01
And I'm more the coach that's like, all right, you've decided, here are the steps you've got to take. How are you dealing with the feelings that are coming up? And how do you want to go forward? And then also, how do you create the life you want?

42:13
You're helping create the battle or non -battle plan. Yeah, I mean, ideally, if you don't have a battle, that's wonderful. And if you do, then let's get you out of it. All right, and then some people want to find you.

42:28
Your website is, I'm going to put it in the chat. Yeah, justtobywedgeld .com. That's the best way to find me. And I have like a little form you can fill out for a free 15 -minute discovery call and we can chat and see.

42:40
Oh, so you'll actually meet with people and kind of help give them some feedback and some, can I help you? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, because we'll talk about like where you are in the divorce process and how many kids you have and whether you figured out your custody arrangements or not and what's your, we'll talk about all of those things and what your needs are.

43:00
And then, yeah, decide if I'm the right fit for you. Yeah, all right. Let's have some random fun. Do you have a few more minutes for random fun? Totally. All right, do you have one random skill that most people may not know about?

43:20
Yeah, I'm a boss parallel parker like like like seatbelt off like hand like on the bat on the passenger seat like I'm not using the little camera like I learned how to do that. Thank you dad. I learned how to put a little part years ago you mastered parallel parking with your dad.

43:39
That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Any big tip there on how to parallel park effectively what's the what's the biggest mistake people make? I don't know about the biggest mistake but like always like you line up your your passenger side mirror with the rear bumper of that car and once your car like you've come straight back and once your car lines up your mirror your passenger mirror lines up with their bumper and that's when you turn that's oh wow yeah that's perfect all right wrap fire questions what was your favorite food when you were a kid?

44:15
Peanut butter still is. Like straight out of the like the thing, the jar. Do you go, Jiffy, what do you do? No, I like the co -op peanut butter that you grind from the machine. I grew up eating that peanut butter in like the 80s.

44:30
Like, yeah, my parents were hippies. So yeah, that's still, what's that? So it's pure, it's clean. Just peanuts. Yeah, love it. Oh, the healthiest way to do it. If you could have a drink or a meal with anyone dead or alive, who would it be and what would you eat or drink?

44:51
It would be Bob Marley. I would have a red stripe with Bob Marley. Oh man, absolutely, yeah. Red stripes like Jamaican beer? That's right. Yes, I would love, love, love, love that. Beautiful answers out there.

45:07
Which, I'm not sure if you're much of a reader, but which book has influenced you the most or what's the first one that comes to mind? It's called, Say What You Mean. It's by Oren J. Sofer. It's a book on nonviolent communication.

45:22
There are several books on nonviolent communication, but Oren's book, and he has a website, and he teaches classes on nonviolent communication. Like, if you wanna learn, like there are so many books out there about communicating with like how to do well in business and how to like earn friends and whatever that other book is, right?

45:44
And, but Say What You Mean is really about learning to, especially like with your partner and your children, really learning to listen, really learning to read how, what somebody needs and what they're feeling, and then learning how to communicate so they see, feel like seen and heard, and so you feel seen and heard.

46:04
Life -changing, absolutely life -changing book. Wow, great. Say What You Mean by... Oren, it's O -R -E -N, Oren J. Sofer, S -O -F -E -R. Yeah, life -changing book. Say What You Mean. by sofa. Sounds great.

46:20
What is your, you're about to work out or you're about to do something to get yourself pumped up. What's your favorite hype song? Well, let's say you're dancing in the shower. I mean, wait, what gets you excited?

46:30
Yeah, like you're driving in the car and you're like ready to go. Yeah, it's The Maestro by the Beastie Boys every time. The Maestro. You know that one? Yeah, I'm sure you do. Everybody knows that. I mean, you know, it's the Beastie Boys.

46:44
Wow, I'll have to play that because you know, I coach this men's group class every single morning. And it's a lot of DJ work. You know, it's 150 minutes of DJing a week. And these guys, you know, everybody likes rock music, but how much can you play rock music over and over and over again?

47:00
Yeah, that's a great that is a great hype song. Definitely. Alright, before we wrap it up, is any last words of advice to our listeners? Um, I guess if you really, I mean, in terms of your divorce, like if you're really, if you really aren't gonna get a divorce, like don't be scared.

47:22
Like divorce is hard, it is never easy, but it is always an opportunity for transformation, right? For personal growth, like you're doing this because you want a better life. So get the support you need.

47:35
Don't just rely on an attorney. Like definitely, definitely get a coach. Like it makes a huge, huge difference. You'll come out on the other side, like stronger, healthier, happier, you know, and really, really use it as an opportunity to change.

47:49
Well, you know, I did not know much about this situation and I feel like there's hope for people now that go through, like I'm seeing like how it's possible. And I think that's beautiful and that's interesting.

48:01
And Toby, I wanna thank you for being here today. It was an honor to have you. Thank you so much for having me. This was a really fun conversation, thanks.